Welding HELP!

Okay, guys. Need help big time. Got talked into by some local welder from the other fishing forum in grabbing stainless steel, rather than the basic carbon steel or aluminum, which they have the tools for. Got stainless steel pipe, got them trimmed, and even threaded to enable the elbows for the frame for maximum security and strength.

The bombshell dropped when they said, "Oh, sorry man. We're not able to weld your stainless steel pipes. We're not set up for it."

YOU FREAKING PAIN IN MY REAR! I already spent over $150 of stainless steel segments, and you said you could. Contacted around, and it will cost me over $200 to weld them together. Crap. Any recommendation to bring the cost down guys?

Stainless steel, 3/4". 1/8" thickness. 5 segments total. 2 of the segments are 25". 1 segment is 30 inches. 2 segments are 10". All I need is 1 segment to have 2 elbows welded. Then the other 2 of the 10" segments to be welded on the 30" segment. Nothing more. $150 minimum service charge. OUCH!

" Got talked into by some local welder from the other fishing forum "

And this why I dont trust anyone from any other forums. I remember correctly you posted something like this awhile back and there was some guys from here said they would help you out back thin. maybe you should hit up those guys and see if they could save you or not. just an idea

miller wrote:" If I remember correctly you posted something like this awhile back and there was some guys from here said they would help you out back then

Well... you were going to post a picture of your set-up but you never did
There are at least two of us that can help you with machining and welding since we have an interest in this sport.
Since you already bought the materials and are set to go with your design, Vagabond's shop can weld it together but the price is between you two.
Just my 2 cents

Did post in the other forums, and did trusted on guy that stepped forward to do the welding jobs among 20 welders. He recommended stainless steel. Spent over 2 months doing designs and calculating aluminum frame to stainless steel stress ratio. He turned around after I got everything and said, "Sorry, we're not set up for stainless steel". Crap..spent over $150 on materials and $60 on cutting and fitting services..so, I have to fork out another $250 because of the guy's complete lack of professionalism?

Thank you IN2DEEP

I can weld them togeather but I can't give you a price without seeing your parts but I am sure it will be no where near the prices you are getting.

Or on the other hand I could really really make you pay FOR POSTING ON OTHER FORUMS!!!

I can PM you the shop adress if you are interested.

I actually did..it was tossed? No clue why

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Gears Mods

Vagabond wrote:Thank you IN2DEEP

I can weld them togeather but I can't give you a price without seeing your parts but I am sure it will be no where near the prices you are getting.

Or on the other hand I could really really make you pay FOR POSTING ON OTHER FORUMS!!!

I can PM you the shop adress if you are interested.

I did offer it at this forum for over a week before post elsewhere

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I remember and you got lots of help and info the first time you posted about this. I'm willing to work with you but I do see you are in the IE which may be too far, if you can't find a cheaper welder there is always JB Weld! j/k don't use that stuff it doesn't work.

TheAsianGuy wrote:

Vagabond wrote:Thank you IN2DEEP

I can weld them togeather but I can't give you a price without seeing your parts but I am sure it will be no where near the prices you are getting.

Or on the other hand I could really really make you pay FOR POSTING ON OTHER FORUMS!!!

I can PM you the shop adress if you are interested.

I did offer it at this forum for over a week before post elsewhere

I am not trying to start anything here so dont take this the wrong way.

I am sure alot of us here surf the other sites as well. I, myself do surf over to several other sites looking for info, tips etc even though I dont post on them so just be careful on what your saying here. people know the truth on what is being posted. you posted this same subject over on FNN

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The very next day. There was no 1 week.
FYI, I have seen alot of other posts as well.

In other words, make sure you say the same thing here as you do on other sites.

Thanks for your help to search. I'll look for a reasonable service costs as well. Indeed it is a far drive to your shop.

Hey AsianGuy, no hassles man.
I wanted to see a picture of your set-up (I don't remember seeing it?) because there could have been an alternative to the way your project was mounted or the construction or materials used and still be plenty strong enough for the application.

miller wrote:
I am not trying to start anything here so dont take this the wrong way.

I am sure alot of us here surf the other sites as well. I, myself do surf over to several other sites looking for info, tips etc even though I dont post on them so just be careful on what your saying here. people know the truth on what is being posted. you posted this same subject over on FNN

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The very next day. There was no 1 week.
FYI, I have seen alot of other posts as well.

In other words, make sure you say the same thing here as you do on other sites.

Miller, you're not starting any. When you found inconsistency, you bring it up. My full apology for the inconsistency of the welding. Any other inconsistency you find in my posts here or any where else, please, point it out. Knowing and not changing is the habit that I cannot condone, and an action that I cannot overlook.

I was posting on 10/30/2011 and all the way to the request of welding service late in December at the other forums, including FFN, in searching for the local welders with services that I can obtain to upgrade my pontoon, especially in the area of metal comparison, tensile strength, and cheap alternative approaches. In truth, I did offer this site for service render. I had two additional welders that I talked to earlier for advice, over at FFN by the user of "brad1" (claimed to have the tools to back the recommendation up) which was willing to take on the challenge. Also, the local California welding forum discussion (a shop worker also work locally around my corner without the tools, but extremely knowledgeable with metallogy). Both were offering local advices (within the 20 minutes travel time), purely on how to expand, without welding services requested by me. Once I got everything nailed down, that's when I had the APB out for the welder.

Once again Miller, my sincere apology for the inconsistency on the offering. As I have mentioned before, any issue you see befitting of correction, be a sound mind and call it out.

Hey Asian Guy,
Tried to see your pix but server could not find page. Would love to see your design (unless it is a secret at this time). I am in the process of mocking mine up ( PVC) and researching materials. Aluminum seems ideal but, I am concerned about electrolysis unless I add the cost, and weight of coatings. My present frame is thin wall stainless, but heavy. My machinist had no problem welding my present frame but he did admit it was a bit tricky because of the wall thickness I am presently exploring a composite frame, of anodized aircraft aluminum and carbon fiber, square and round tubing. EXPENSIVE!! but it will be worth it in the end (I hope!) I am trying to eliminate welding completely. Hope you can find a good welder. they seem to be as hard as a good dentist to find!! Hee Hee!!

bodfish

Bodfish, try this link [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hope that link works. I've scanned my 1st draft hand drawn frame design. Currently talking to a guy with the CAD program which he can take the photos and convert the frame into a CAD layout for the fun of it when he has time. He wants to build something close to it for his family later.

Hmmmm,.... Very interesting! I will post my mockup soon but I am about to go on a 20 day work run so not till next month. How long are your pontoons?

bodfish

Pontoon is detailed as a 9' before I bought it, but measured it at a 10'2" for the 2008 model. Bearing weight for two of the bladder is at 500lbs recommended, 600lbs topped. The frame's dimensions are labeled.

Have fun on the work trip. Come back, and give the mock up of the frame if you like. I'll keep the mock up for future upgrades..for now, definitely limited on cash for further upgrades.

Vagabond wrote:Thank you IN2DEEP

I can weld them togeather but I can't give you a price without seeing your parts but I am sure it will be no where near the prices you are getting.

Or on the other hand I could really really make you pay FOR POSTING ON OTHER FORUMS!!!

I can PM you the shop adress if you are interested.

Wait, there are other forums? That's bad!

Hey asianguy are you making a complete new frame for your toon or do you plan on adding to an existing frame?

I can help you with the cad drawings and 3d models if you need the help....that what I do for a living!!

For the moment, just and extension frame to the back of the pre-existing frame. Your help will surely be called upon when I stumble like a baffoon.

Hey AsianGuy,
I had my frame extended 6 inches many years ago to facilitate a better motor position and increase my deck space (rear). What I did not calculate was the longer frame on my same sized toons changed my contact points and caused bowing and actually slowed me down. That is why I recently bought longer toons for my frame. Much better performance!

bodfish

Bodfish, you're smack on correct about the bowing effects. The Dave Scadden frame that I got has the ability to join multiple frame together. With that in mind, I did my research. Now you know why it took me so long to calculate and research the metallogy effects on the frame. I wanted to use carbon steel, which is a hell lot cheaper, instead of stainless steel, but the rusting factor got me thinking twice. Aluminum is great, but has a problem with stress. I've contacted the manufacturer of the frame, and asked for the aluminum type that they used for production. Then I asked the local consulting welding engineers for their inputs on finding a cross metal types, with the metal contact stress points and total contact/welding tensile strength. Over month, all I did was crunching numbers and cross reference checking. Then, I found it. The sweet spots. I confirmed with the consulting engineers, and they agreed! *PHEW* No more numbers crunching.

Got my raw materials, went to the local metal shop guy from a freakishly long list that I've been calling to get the best deal in..I would say nothing close to Vagabond's special offer, but the drive back and forth alone to transport the frame for tailoring would have put the special deal way up there with the best local service costs. This is why I want us to have a list of service providers for members only special cost be listed. Members helping to promote members' businesses. Best of both worlds.

The tensile strength and the stress points of the extended frame will exceed all the existing frame's strength by nearly twice the weight. The total extension is 19" from existing rear frame to the back end. The total weight bearing capacity for the points of contact is 1200lbs before bowing. I won't be going anywhere near that sheer stress point. Max weight in the back would be 250lbs, since the two pontoons max weight support is 600lbs. However, having a 2nd man in the back would be nice. I will post the mod instructions as I get the frame back, and take photos. I hope I would be able to provide enough info for pontoon owners to do this mod for their needs.

TheAsianGuy, in all your research on materials and welding did anyone you talked to mention the problems you might have with dissimilar metals?

I see a couple of problems you might run into making the extensions out of steel if the original frame is aluminum. First will be trying to weld steel to aluminum.

It can be done but it takes a very skilled welder who knows what he/she is doing. If done wrong it can cause brittle spots in your frame.

The other issue I see may only occur if you have electronic like a trolling motor or fish finder mounted on your set up. Because of the dissimilar metals you may run the risk of Galvanic corrosion.

If you want I can help you with your design and help you get this thing done...let me know.

Sonarbp, yes..the engineers did mention about the different metal stress points, and heavily advice me to find a metal of equal to and better quality when going from metal-to-metal, including not to exceed the recommended original weight restriction.

I'm not welding the stainless steel to aluminum. Oh, heavy forbid. I utilize the existing slots in the frame where the extended frame can be mounted. Using the frame's primary tubes with the slots, the stainless steel will be machined to fit the inner diameter of the slots with the reduced outer diameter of the steel's pipe. No welding done on metal-to-metal..just stainless steel pipes only. The 8" inserts of stainless steel into the 1/8" T1 aluminum frame will provide the support needed for the extension total weight (250lbs max).

Fish finder has its own down-rig (the original bike fork) in the pre-existing slot that meant for the wheel. Any metallic surface for the transducer mounting will be treated with rust inhibiting paint later before touching water. Trolling motor will be mounted not on the frame, but on the existing platform that came with the pontoon originally. That platform has the weight bearing capacity of 250lbs, and will support a motor up to 5HP, so, trolling motor is not a problem. However, the extension frame is designed for additional platform support, as well as additional balance. I've calculated so much for all scenarios and approaches that my head hurts for a week. But, I'm smiling now..nearly done.

Thanks for the offer. Hope you can shed some more info after the 1st version is completely modded. The 2nd version may even be better with your and bodfish's input.

Well that is good, not trying to weld steel to the aluminum. Like I said before it can be done but it is more trouble than it is worth!

Even though you are not welding the two different metals together you still may run into accelerated corrosion because of the dissimilar metal being in contact, especially if you use it in a saltwater environment.

Keep a close eye on the areas where the two metals are joined together. Galvanic corrosion and or electrolysis may still occur.


I will try and take the sketch you posted and model it real quick on my lunch. If I cam I will post it up for you to see.

Awesome! I'll make sure to keep an eye out for the metal-to-metal contact after the mods. It has been warned to me before. I did pay close attention to possible accelerated oxidization, galvanic and electrolysis events from each outing to the local waters between the provided fork and the aluminum frame. Will even be more vigilant with the stainless steel being tossed into the mix.