FLOAT TUBE VS KAYAK

Hey Leo,
I agree 100% on both boats. I have had a chance to test the Hobie a few times. Not yet the Native. I really like the Native's modularity and layout. Much more fishing friendly in my book. And I am a propeller kind of guy.The Hobie system is elegant and ingenious. I prefer a prop for torque. Also the Native system has different props for different conditions. I wonder which drive system would be more strain over an extended time? (reciprocating leg motion in comparison the typical rotating bicycle motion?) Hmmm… more study. ( my interest here is that I have not ruled out employing a pedal drive system for my new design,.. good idea? not a good idea?)

But overall I still like the control a toon gives you over both, and in shallow, weedy situations, the toon rules! That's why I'm building a toon. I believe it is the best of the three types of vessel. (toob, toon or yak)

          bodfish

After peddling both Native and Hobie for at least 15 miles, and over 4 straight hours (continuous peddling at moderate pace), I can truly say that both are of equal caliber in causing same joints' fatigues and lumbar discomforts. However, it's more so with the Hobie due to the lower positional angle seat. I took the spare seat from my pontoon, and 5ested the elevational setting, and I can truly say that just 2 to 3 inches higher will improve the overall confort factor of the Hobie over the Native quite amazingly. I believe this is why the Pro Angeler has the same sitting design as the Native. I will upgrade my seat very soon to match the Pro Angeler. No instability noticed at the higher level.

The repetition of the to-and-fro motion of the Mirage drive is similar to the Stair Master exercise vs Native propeller cycling, which is exactly like the recumbant bike my coworker has. The Mirage drive forces you to use your quads and calves excesively, with very little on the hip, if you properly set up the peddle length adjustment. The Native I noticed forces you to use more of your quad and hip during rotations, and very little on the calves. I 'm a cyclist freak, and active sports fanatic. Details are my cup of coffee.

As for torgue, straight out the box, same delivery speed from body to drive system. Mirage drive has energy transfer advantage due to its Turbo ST fins by a good margin. My wife has less lower strength, yet maintain a good 25 feet distant ahead. I pushed the Native drive to its absolute peddling limits to catch up.

Oh, the Native steering is the same as the Hobie right out of the box. Once turbulence hit, both standard steering becomes useless. However, Hobie rudder upgrade made a huge difference, even when there is no forward motion. Drift and current navigation using the sailing rudder suddenly becomes a massive advantage. We suffered a 35mph+ wind conditions that Native failed to even move, let alone steer properly. I switched with my wife, place the Native in tow, and let loose with all my strength. Hobie navigated though the waves quite easily and responsively, even undet minimal forward speed at 1mph into the wind, with yak in tow, where Native was at.a standstill. My wife struggled to place the Native in between optimal positions to cut through the high waves, but she cursed on the Native's passive steering ability, due to mid vs rear rudder control. After a soaked day, she promised to kick my rear if I ever purchase the Native and let her suffers the same disaster on the water without passive control again.

Hmmm,… Pedal drive for my new toon? Uh, no. Thnx for the review.

bodfish

Don't dismiss the propeller drive just yet. It's great to prevent pelvis fatigue due to minimal movement in inducing lumbar blood flow. The circular movement on the Native's drive promotes lower extremity blood flow roughly 20% better than the Hobie drive. This is a great thing when you get stuck in the middle of the open water away from shore, due to bad tides. However, diverting power from hip to feet, then into water, is lost significantly during the semi-hyper extension of the legs.

But, if you're going to know you're drifting so far some shore due to the tides, this is where Hobie also becomes an advantage due to the sail readiness designed on all their Mirage kayaks.

The Native's ability to fully stop is so freaking valuable when it comes to landing on top of the structures when you find it, rather than looping around. The Hobie requires at least two different passes (1 pass if I combine with the paddles) to find the structure again, deploying the drift sock, and maintain on top of that structure. The Native let me stops short literally 4 ft after finding that structure, back peddle, and stays put (only in calm water), without the drift sock. Massive kudo here.

I love Native's ability to use active peddling to induce efficiently turning (in calm water only), literally, on a dime. Even with a massive rudder, the turning rate on the Hobie is about 12 feet diameter turn-about. The Native's active peddling and turning (with 1.2ft of its rudder + propeller) in the water) created a turn-about less than 6ft (the same length as the bow to rudder control). In tight quarter, such as small streams, Native will beat the Hobie during a race to get to structures. But, at the same time, the advances in turning also become the downfall, due to the inability to raise the propeller unit up in time before the whole extended unit hits something underwater, and *CRACK* *POP* The Native system (luckily it was just rental), suffered a propeller crack, with the rudder tip of 1/2 inc completely snapped off. The retainer system in the hull area warped because of the buckling below before the system could pop and release itself from any further damage (insurance covered the damages). My wife's personal Hobie went through the same structure, with her fins struck it and fully raised up in a split second to fully avoid any damage, then coasted. The Mirage drive suffered only a small scratch, with no bending or warping of the fins or two stainless steel masts. That would have been $100 of repair/replacement of parts.

Both drives are unique, that's for sure. Both have great designs and ideas during development. But, each system has to be used with a grain of salt to it. In deep water, Native will be the go to drive system. Mix between shallow and deep (which we have tons of in the inland waters), I'll stick with Hobie. The Hobie enthusiast are now modifying their system to accommodate a circular peddling system using mod design. I'll be venturing into that possibly in 2014, since I have tons of cycling spare parts. We'll see.

Leo,
Killer detailed write up! I own both an ODC 420 and A Hobie Outback, do you possibly have a link to the info on the pedal mod you wee talking about?

I have to recall back on the HobieCat's discussion page. It was on there, and some photos. Couldn't search for the mod photos at this time for some reason. I'll search around again. It was posted under the Google search phrases:

"Hobie Propel Mod"
"Hobie Bike Peddle Mod"
"Hobbie Propeller Drive Mod"

Found the returns for a few last years before I invested in the Hobie units, during the comparisons on the two drive systems, and a way to integrate the Propel drive into the Hobie for long excursion in deep waters.

I have a Hobie revolution and a fat cat. Love them both. Two different tools to cover most situations. As stated in a previous post, they each have their pros and cons and they each excel in different situations.
I'm not trying to tell you guys to switch from one to the other or use one and not the other or one is better than the other. Just try to keep an open mind. They each work better than the other in certain situations.

kobra wrote:I have a Hobie revolution and a fat cat. Love them both. Two different tools to cover most situations. As stated in a previous post, they each have their pros and cons and they each excel in different situations.
I'm not trying to tell you guys to switch from one to the other or use one and not the other or one is better than the other. Just try to keep an open mind. They each work better than the other in certain situations.

I'm currently working on getting a yak. I believe it'll help get me in spots that are hard to reach on my tube. You got a good point about the pros and cons. Having a yak and tube is like having the best of both worlds. Without breaking the BANK!!!

trying to sell my kayak. just got a float tube much better, and my kayak is 14 foot so much heavier.