Fish Finders yes/no? Maybe?

Do you use a fish finder? Do you know how to use it? Do you think you get optimum performance from your finder? Do you need help or instruction on how to use your ff ? Would you be interested in learning more about why and when and how to use your fish finder?

We would like to know your thoughts. I myself would love to attend a workshop on sounders and better my use of the ones I own.

How about you?

really good topic waxon! I just stared using one, I got the concept of it, but no, I dont get the max, benefit of it. if you know about a class that teach us about it, let us know

Aquaholic38 wrote:really good topic waxon! I just stared using one, I got the concept of it, but no, I dont get the max, benefit of it. if you know about a class that teach us about it, let us know

Do we have a local expert here on the forum who might be interested in getting this going?

I have a FB120 and would like to learn how to beter use it also. Great topic Waxon

Well this is a great topic. I do use a sonar unit but found it best used to locate bottom and structure not fish. I also use it to get water temp readings.

Most units will give false "FISH" reading due to debris in the water.

I use one to get water temp and read the ocean floor. I know I'm not getting the max out of it but from my understanding when bass fishing this is all you need as you won't be able to meeter any bass as they hold tight to structure. Find structure and you should be able to find fish.
I have garmen echo 100. The thing I wish I had was a gps unit but with more money and time that will come.

This is a good post waxon

Thanx! I have a Lowrance Mark IV and I just got a Fishing Buddy 110. I will be using the 110 on the tube now as my feelings are the same as most. Temp and structure. But the Lowrance I will use on the boat. Or maybe the kayak (one day) but with all the fooling around with it and all the videos I have watched on "how to" I just dont feel like I get the most out of it.

IMO, any FF that is less than $300 (new) are only good for 3 things. water temp, depth and finding structure. Now I am only speaking of the use in the salt. yes you can properly find some fish but not what your looking for 99% of time.

In the fresh water these unit will properly work better as you can find schooling trout, bass etc.

so far I have learned what White Seabass, Squid, sand/rocking structure, eel grass and kelp looks like on FF.
I have yet to see any bass on the unit even when we are catching.

It would be interesting to here from some manufatures on the use of there equipment. I agree one good use is for temp, depth and, sturcture guide. But this is coming from a member that does not use one at this time. So again what do the manufactures have to say about there products.

miller wrote:IMO, any FF that is less than $300 (new) are only good for 3 things. water temp, depth and finding structure. Now I am only speaking of the use in the salt. yes you can properly find some fish but not what your looking for 99% of time.

In the fresh water these unit will properly work better as you can find schooling trout, bass etc.

so far I have learned what White Seabass, Squid, sand/rocking structure, eel grass and kelp looks like on FF.
I have yet to see any bass on the unit even when we are catching.

I totally agree about a cheap fish finder. I've got a cheap 150-200 hummingbird on my tube which is fine for those three things mentioned but totally unreliable in actually showing fish.

The kayak i just bought came with a pretty decent color lowrance and its spot on when it comes to showing fish. I know this because I could see bait fish swimming under me and they were indeed coming up on the finder.

itchybass wrote:

miller wrote:IMO, any FF that is less than $300 (new) are only good for 3 things. water temp, depth and finding structure. Now I am only speaking of the use in the salt. yes you can properly find some fish but not what your looking for 99% of time.

In the fresh water these unit will properly work better as you can find schooling trout, bass etc.

so far I have learned what White Seabass, Squid, sand/rocking structure, eel grass and kelp looks like on FF.
I have yet to see any bass on the unit even when we are catching.

I totally agree about a cheap fish finder. I've got a cheap 150-200 hummingbird on my tube which is fine for those three things mentioned but totally unreliable in actually showing fish.

The kayak i just bought came with a pretty decent color lowrance and its spot on when it comes to showing fish. I know this because I could see bait fish swimming under me and they were indeed coming up on the finder.

that is one thing I forgot to add. my unit does pick up fish (bait fish) and seal but no bass or halis.

I wish they made a low cost unit that came with a gps to mark spots

I use a hand held gps.

Since a halibut is a flat fish mostly on the bottom (I know they move about in the water column) how would sonar pu a hali? What would the image be? Most fish are some sort of arc or "boomerang". Maybe we do see hali but we don't realize it?

Hey guys,
After reading this thread I suggest you all go to a seminar!

These are exactly the remarks I used to make before I actually spent some time with the folks from Lowrance. Once you learn how your unit works then it is so much easier and most importantly you will gain confidence in what you are seeing on the screen. I am no expert by any means but if you do a bit of research about how the units work and what you are really looking at ,( and there is some great stuff on-line,) you will see how really useful they can be, and what you may have been missing!! The new meters they have now are mind blowing!! Thats why I will soon get rid of my old one and buy the new Lowrance.

bodfish

PS.
Waxon, Most "fish finders" differentiate fish by interpreting the reflected signal off of their swim bladders (a bubble of air) . Hmmm,.. make sense why you don't read Halibuts? and for that matter Ling cod as well!

Hee Hee!

bodfish wrote:

Hey guys,
After reading this thread I suggest you all go to a seminar!

These are exactly the remarks I used to make before I actually spent some time with the folks from Lowrance. Once you learn how your unit works then it is so much easier and most importantly you will gain confidence in what you are seeing on the screen. I am no expert by any means but if you do a bit of research about how the units work and what you are really looking at ,( and there is some great stuff on-line,) you will see how really useful they can be, and what you may have been missing!! The new meters they have now are mind blowing!! Thats why I will soon get rid of my old one and buy the new Lowrance.

bodfish

PS.
Waxon, Most "fish finders" differentiate fish by interpreting the reflected signal off of their swim bladders (a bubble of air) . Hmmm,.. make sense why you don't read Halibuts? and for that matter Ling cod as well!

Hee Hee!

Is it that these fish do not have the bladder? I stump has no bladder either. I thought perhaps it was the position in which they hold in the water. Interesting point you make there. I am doing the research cuz it's bugging me now. lol.

They do not have the swim bladder. Excellent point Bod. I just looked it up. Hmmm...so other objects do not contain an air pocket and they register on the ff. But we can not always decipher what they are. So perhaps it is safe to say that we just would not recognize a halibut or cod even if it showed on the screen. There would be no recognizable arch or line. Still I am curious.

waxon67 wrote:They do not have the swim bladder. Excellent point Bod. I just looked it up. Hmmm...so other objects do not contain an air pocket and they register on the ff. But we can not always decipher what they are. So perhaps it is safe to say that we just would not recognize a halibut or cod even if it showed on the screen. There would be no recognizable arch or line. Still I am curious.

some one is doing his home work!

Aquaholic38 wrote:

waxon67 wrote:They do not have the swim bladder. Excellent point Bod. I just looked it up. Hmmm...so other objects do not contain an air pocket and they register on the ff. But we can not always decipher what they are. So perhaps it is safe to say that we just would not recognize a halibut or cod even if it showed on the screen. There would be no recognizable arch or line. Still I am curious.

some one is doing his home work!

Toms all over it!

waxon67 wrote:They do not have the swim bladder. Excellent point Bod. I just looked it up. Hmmm...so other objects do not contain an air pocket and they register on the ff. But we can not always decipher what they are. So perhaps it is safe to say that we just would not recognize a halibut or cod even if it showed on the screen. There would be no recognizable arch or line. Still I am curious.

My guess is that the software also detects patterns. It might detect a shelf or stump or sunken Titanic as a non-moving structure on the bottom. It might detect an air-bubble, that is moving, and recognizes this pattern as "fish" and puts up a fish icon on your screen. That'd be my wild-ass guess..

Just get a HD side image finder...

Hey Waxon,
here are a couple of thoughts that made things clear for me,...

A good sonar (or radar) reading is based on how well the target reflects the transmitted signal. A good reflected signal is based on
Proximity - closer, clearer,.. Far away? (deep) boost signal and/or sensitivity.
Duration - how long does it reflect? if it is moving fast (or you are) it is harder to read. at rest, easy! Moving fast? boost frequency and/or gain

And now the most important one,...
Reflectivity - 1) Size, bigger, better, surface area
2) Density, thicker,harder, Molecular density
3) (this one is tricky) Signal differentiation, (from your background)
Here's a good example,
Water detected in air?(radar) air being your background, EASY! water, very different than air! So,... Air detected in water? (sonar) water being your background, AS EASY! air very different than water!

remember the swim bladder?

There are a slew of other factors involved but these were the ones that opened my eyes. Angle of attack, and angle of reflectance,( example: why does the same ledge appear completely differently on the screen if you are going uphill as opposed to down?)
Interference, (don't even get me started!!), etc., etc.,

Also the most important things I first discovered about my meter was that it was originally designed to detect the bottom structure first and learning how to make it operate as such is the most important thing to learn first! "Learn how to draw a tight bottom line first! " (was the anthem of our skippers when teaching us how to use the FURUNO.)

Is your head exploding yet?

HEE,! HEE,! HEE,!....

bodfish

bodfish wrote:
Hey Waxon,
here are a couple of thoughts that made things clear for me,...

A good sonar (or radar) reading is based on how well the target reflects the transmitted signal. A good reflected signal is based on
Proximity - closer, clearer,.. Far away? (deep) boost signal and/or sensitivity.
Duration - how long does it reflect? if it is moving fast (or you are) it is harder to read. at rest, easy! Moving fast? boost frequency and/or gain

And now the most important one,...
Reflectivity - 1) Size, bigger, better, surface area
2) Density, thicker,harder, Molecular density
3) (this one is tricky) Signal differentiation, (from your background)
Here's a good example,
Water detected in air?(radar) air being your background, EASY! water, very different than air! So,... Air detected in water? (sonar) water being your background, AS EASY! air very different than water!

remember the swim bladder?

There are a slew of other factors involved but these were the ones that opened my eyes. Angle of attack, and angle of reflectance,( example: why does the same ledge appear completely differently on the screen if you are going uphill as opposed to down?)
Interference, (don't even get me started!!), etc., etc.,

Also the most important things I first discovered about my meter was that it was originally designed to detect the bottom structure first and learning how to make it operate as such is the most important thing to learn first! "Learn how to draw a tight bottom line first! " (was the anthem of our skippers when teaching us how to use the FURUNO.)

Is your head exploding yet?

HEE,! HEE,! HEE,!....

bodfish

lol.. this technical explanation reminded me of a funny story. About 7 years ago, I was out on my friend's family boat. I really nice one, like 48-ft Regal?? (I don't know boats). He doesn't even fish, but he kept saying how this boat had the "most advanced, best fish finder", that will actually show fish on the screen, and how far down they are. And he insisted that it "really works". I ask, "how do you know?" He explains that there will be no fish icons, and the bottom will change and become more shallow and deeper in known shallow and deep areas, and all of a sudden a fish icon pops up with depth number. I ask, "have you ever caught a fish right when it said you have a fish below your boat?" Him, "uh.. no.. I don't fish". I say, "how do you know the software doesn't just randomly draw a fish on your screen?" I mean, they sold it to you as a "FISH FINDER", it better darn well find some fish.. even if they don't really exist! He argues, the company wouldn't make a machine that would just fraudulently display false fish when there is nothing down there. Their reputation would suffer! I counter, "how would you know? The screen says there are fish down there, but maybe you just suck at fishing? It's a fish finder, not a fish catcher". back-n-forth we go... lol.. he was getting a little pissed that I was dissing his boat. (I also kept referring to it as a skiff or a row boat) I can be an ass sometimes.

(ps... he was groomsman in my wedding, and I was in his.. best friends busting balls, cuz that's what we do!)

This is a good thread
Fish Finder? YES!
I have spent many hrs looking at my Furuno meter on my boat and would not even think of going fishing without it

This 120 Humminbird Fishinbuddy that's on my tube is pretty decent
There are a few things that I would recommend when it comes to adjusting a fishfinder
***TURN OFF THE AUTO SETTINGS!!!*** and use the manual settings

These are the settings that I am using on the 120 fishingbuddy

-Sensitivity: 9

-Depth range: depends, if I'm metering a ridge or drop-off, I run on manual. I set the max depth to the depth that I'm checking to see if there are any fish holding on the ridge.
If you run the auto depth range while doing this, it will keep shifting as you go deeper or shallower and you won't get a clear picture of what's down there
If it's a flat area, manual or auto depth range would be fine

-Zoom: off

-Chart speed: 5

-Fish alarm: off

-Depth alarm: off

-Filter: off

-Set-up:
- contrast: 4
- fish ID: off
- bottom view: black
- battery alarm: off

-Sidefinder: off




I feel what's most important is to crank up the sensitivity level to the point where you start to get interference on the screen then add some filtering to clear the interference.
Might have to back off the sensitivity some.
Play with this combo to get the needed results.

My 120 only has on or off for the filter. Other finders will have have levels of filtering.


Here's some Striped Bass readings at Pyramid Lake
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

hmmm may be you can explain me all of those settings? I have the hummingbird 140c

@bodfish- pretty interesting stuff. You inspire me to become a better fish finder fellow for sure! I understand the concepts. The learning curves seem dependent upon the quality/capability of the unit in use and the various targets. Seems as with many things you must get involved and develop experience along with (hopefully) some good guidance.

@Docrunner-(note to self. Docrunner will bust your balls)

@IN2DEEP-Interesting! So many of the tutorials you find on the web suggest one keep more "auto" settings. I find your approach equally as valid and needing further exploration.

p.s. The fish is NOICE!!