Grissom Island area issues

When members posted about being chased out of Shoreline Marina I assumed that they were talking about the area around the docks.  Not necessarily.

This past Tuesday I was trolling along near the point where the fire boats are, with the intent of crossing over from the south rock wall to the island, when a young guy in a blue golf shirt came from the building on the point, and started yelling that I could not fish in the Marina.  We had a discussion about what constituted the Marina, and what his authority was to restrict fishing where I was.  Then-- get this--he flipped over a sign that was hanging facing the land and showed it to me upside down.  After that little insult to my intelligence, I became a bit stubborn.  But, he was joined by a guy who said he was harbor patrol--and that the Marina extended as far as the eye could see-- and then rattled off a LB municipal code. So, I left.
When I got home, I looked up the code that was quoted, and sure enough it only applies to shore fishing.  So, I asked for clarification by email to the Marina manager.  He responded by citing the the same inappropriate ordinance.  When I pointed out that it did not apply, he stalled around, and then called me on the phone with additional LBMCs which define the marina boundaries, and restrict entry by certain types of water craft--including sit-on-top kayaks.

The bottom line is that LB (which owns the marina) has legally defined it  as extending  all the way to the western bank of Grissom Island, and then around the island to the rock wall on the north side.  It is not clear to what extent they control the area between the southern inner wall and outer wall on the south side; but, the Manager said they control from the buoy that establishes the 3mph limit, wherever that buoy is.

Here are the codes the Manager quoted:LBMC 16.08.460 (Obstruction of access), LBMC 16.08.581 (sailboard boats) and LBMC 16.08.680 (No watercraft).  The applicable codes enumerate the restricted types of water craft with some specificity,  and it may be noteworthy that it does not mention float tubes, if anyone wants to test that omission.

BTW, the same LBMC restrictions on certain classes of water craft also apply to the main Alamitos Bay channel past Ballast Point and on up to the marina.  Clearly, they do not enforce the restrictions there.

The LB Fire Dept through the Life Guards is allegedly the enforcement agency.  The justification that the Manager gave for the restrictions was safety.  If that is true, I shouldn't think there would be a problem for anyone who stayed close to the Grissom shoreline on the north and west sides.  But, I don't know. As I was packing up I got in a conversation with a young fellow who was getting ready to launch in a tube.  He said that he had been chased out of the area before, and now just fishes the east and south sides of the island. So, they have been actively harassing people.  I would definitely stay clear of the  gap in the rock wall on the south side--as you would be in the channel, and also in view from the building on the point.  Unless, of course, you are a pre-dawn warrior.

Just for the hell of it, i wish that I had the energy and the financial resources to challenge those restrictive ordinances, which seem to me to be counter to California policy with respect to public access to the water;  but, alas.

OK, thanks for the info. I can see this being a great place to land a PB fish from time to time but the risk of fines are too much of a concern. I am not saying don't go but I think I will watch and learn from others before I make in concrete plans to fish the area again.

It really does sound like a bunch of bull overall, just people harassing because they are told to. Until someone is sited or find we will never know if it will stick. While I also think this would be a great place to hold a gathering that would be the wrong thing to do. If you head out with a large group you are probably asking for trouble. I am sure there will be those that will still brave it good luck and let us know if you have any more issues. Thanks again Bob G.

Thanks for the info I hope we get to test it out one day we should all do a run to the marina

Just to clarify. There are no known restrictions on the east and south side of the island. The Marina manager actually reminded me that I had the option to fish there. The youngish float tuber told me that he has great fishing in the kelp on the south. I also visited with a gent who had been wading off of the beach, and who said he has good luck with halibut there--although not Tuesday.
He also said he had fished the area for 60 years, and specifically mentioned good fishing from a boat around the break walls near the point; i.e., very near where I was accosted.. That was before I launched, so I did not discuss the restrictions with him; and do not know if this has come about because of new management in the Marina, or what. (The manager sounds like a young piss ant, but I don't want to be judgemental.) As I mentioned, the very same restrictions apply to the main channel at LAB, which includes Ballast Point, and they obviously do not enforce it against yaks, paddle boards, swimmers,water bikes, or float tubes. I don't know how vigorously the Long Beach fire/life guard folks would enforce the ban at Shoreline. Last week I actually fished the length of their dock (not considering that part of the Marina) while Life Guard crew were puttering around on their boat not over 50ft away. I suppose it could be costly to test it. Discretion is always good.

Thanks for the footwork bob.
I did some research the day after Dan's birthday trip and found similar information. I was unable to locate any specific wording in the code that prohibited us from fishing the north side of the island. All regulations pertaining to fishing were stating no fishing from shore (unless from designated piers or from a berthed boat). This refers to 16.04.460 stating "no person shall fish from the sidewalk, parkway,seawall or bulkhead in or adjacent to the following described areas..." then proceeding to list all the areas that fall under it.

Referring to 16.08.581 and 16.08.680
They also specifically have regulations for sailboard boats but not float tubes. I believe the enforcement of that code has nothing to do with us because it is so narrowly defined. Unfortunately, based on their wording, sit on top kayaks are not allowed in the marina.

If they decided to pull the "you are considered a swimmer since you are in the water" card, based on a ruling from the USCG that states float tubes ARE vessels.
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However, they have more specific regulations in LBMC that can affect us. In 16.08.582 (Throwing rocks). It states "No person shall willfully throw,hurl or project a stone, rock or other hard substance at or near a vessel in a marina". Our fishing activities fall under "hard substance" so we should be aware...

So far, it seemed like we were in the clear. I did more digging and finally was referred to Long Beach Marina Rules and Regulations.

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Section 4, article H states: "No person shall fish from the walls, docks, or fingers of the Long Beach marinas. Fishing is permitted only from fishing piers or vessels berthed at slips"

There we have it folks, if any long beach marina management wants to enforce it, they can...They can't put up a "no fishing" sign because they allow fishing from berthed boats. But they don't allow any other fishing so it's more of a "private use" deal. I havent found definite information about marina boundaries, but based on my last interaction with Harbor patrol, it's pretty much the mouths of either entrance to the marina...making fishing on the north side of the island off limits. After all that digging and misdirection from agencies, it is actually a rule of the marina that prohibits fishing in there. Sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

This is important info thanks for sharing, I am sure there will be some that will fish here still. Be safe guys if you are asked to leave do so, but I still feel like we can get away with fishing here as long as we are quiet and not in the way. There are some big fish there might be worth the risk from time to time.

Great information here. I think it's still a great spot, even if limited to the east and south sides. There are some great spots just east of the island as well.

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Kin, I agree with all that you said. I don't know if it was sloppy wording or an oversight, but they were very specific in naming vessel types and omitted float tubes.

As far as throwing missiles at boats, that was never an issue. I tried to tell the Marina Manager that there was no intent to fish around the boats. I just wanted him to acknowledge that I had the right to access water that for which there was no valid reason to restrict me; i.e. along the shores of the island. He didn't really listen; just blathered about safety. He also threw out the bit about Marina rules and regs; but, graciously acknowledged that they were not binding on people who did not dock at the marina--and that the public didn't have access to them anyway.

I am considering reaching out to the Coast Guard, who actually manages all navigable waters within U.S. territory, and see how they feel about the city of Long Beach arbitrarily limiting access to open water.

As an aside; landowners on certain popular rivers in Virginia tried various arguments to keep folks from floating by their property. Some actually claimed that a King's Grant extended their property line to the center of the river. (Yes, there are apparently people in Virginia who still don't recognize the Revolution and Independence. At least not when it is to their advantage to ignore it.) They lost. It was ruled that anyone could move about the river at will, as long as they did not set foot on posted land.

One last thought. Folks who have lived in the area for some time, probably know that for a time Long Beach actually prohibited fishing throughout the bay using safety and disruption of large shipping as the pretext. They finally gave up on that.

I will fish Grissom, not the marina, and let the chips fall. If sited I will take this issue to court. These types of laws go unchallenged and they get away with it. I will contact the Fish and Game department located in seal beach and see what constitutes open waters for fishing......GT

I'll be with ya Brotha!

SP Dan <"))><

Let me no and I will Be there Please not Tues wed and Ill be at the King of the Hammer 25 thru 8 and my year is complete

GT wrote:I will fish Grissom, not the marina, and let the chips fall. If sited I will take this issue to court. These types of laws go unchallenged and they get away with it. I will contact the Fish and Game department located in seal beach and see what constitutes open waters for fishing......GT

Dude I hope it all goes well but if you should get popped i will be your character Witness if you need one.