Proposed Stocking Regulations Will Impact California Lake and Pond Fishing

What: California Fish and Game Commission Hearing on Fish Stocking Regulations

When: December 15, 2011, 8:30 a.m.

Where: Hubbs Sea World Research Institute, 2595 Ingraham St, San Diego, CA

During
its December 15 meeting, the California Fish and Game Commission is
taking under consideration onerous environmental regulations that, if
passed, will force lake, pond and hatchery owners to perform costly
environmental surveys on every lake or pond that stocks fish. These
surveys could cost up to $100,000 per body of water!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]If
approved, these regulations will create a substantial burden on private
landowners who wish to stock and manage ponds and lakes on their
property. Businesses that offer fishing on private lakes, will likely
either be put out of business by the fees associated with these rigorous
protocols, or will be forced to significantly increase the cost for
visiting anglers like you. KeepAmericaFishing™ encourages California's
anglers to attend this meeting and tell the commissioners what these
regulations mean for anglers – higher fees and less time in the
outdoors.

California
is home to an estimated 3,000 lakes and reservoirs and 24,000 ponds,
all of which will be subject to these onerous and costly regulations if
approved.

The
passage of these regulations would represent one of the greatest
threats to freshwater recreational fishing California has ever seen.

Good Points to Make During the Meeting to the Commissioners:

As an angler and conservationist you are committed to taking care of our great outdoors and support efforts to ensure that fish populations are available now and for future generations to enjoy. Onerous and costly regulations will limit access to fishing by making lake and pond stocking unfeasibly expensive, and will force many private fishing pond operators to go out of business. Recreational fishing is an economic driver for many communities and small businesses and contributes over $4.7 billion a year to a state that has a struggling economy and the second highest unemployment rate in the Nation.

Can't Attend the Meeting?


Even if you are unable to attend the commission's meeting, you can still take action. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

Your
voice needs to be heard. Stop the Fish and Game Commission from passing
regulations that threaten access to fishing and jobs!

Not sure why, but the links you posted don't go to the keepamericafishing.com webiste.

They take you to salsalabs.com instead.

Hm. I wonder what happen to the Mandate Order that DFG was placed under, into, subpoena-ed with. I want to read the size pond required for sampling based on the environmental organizations that pushed the lawsuit. If they indicated for every pond size, we are gravely misinformed, or the lawsuit gone way overboard.

i dont get it whats goin on what r they tryin to regulate

DFG got sued for letting the ponds' owners doing what they like for so long. The environmental groups indicated the ponds with stocked fishes were and are still impacting the water ways due to excessive water nutrients intro, with the detrimental effects of introduction of non-native fish species into the CA waters, which will out compete the native fishes from their resources. Haven't seen that yet, unless they plan to introduce snakehead fishes. Then we're in deep crap.

However, I can understand about the monitoring. I prefer they monitor for more of the biological impacts, such as nutrient loads, suspended solids, metals, biological oxygen demand, chemical oxygen demands, and turbidity. Those are the critical parameters in comparison to fish tissue sampling. That should be reserved for the Salton Sea, or the heavy biological impacted sites along the ocean, or fresh waters that got impacted by pollution discharges, not because of stocking. That's pure BS.

The bottom line is the DFG was ordered to implament an environmental impact study on IT'S OWN hatchery's back in 2006 by a court judge. As a result they have had to spend a signfigant amount of money creating a policy and procedure to do so. Since the DFG is already over budget they are trying to make this loss of revenue into a revenue stream by imposing the same regulations that they where ordered to follow onto private hatcharies AND public lakes!!

A lawsuit filed by California Association for Recreational Fishing (CARF) contends that the department's environmental impact report went beyond the 2006 lawsuit and court ruling by focusing, not only on the state's own public hatcheries, but also on private fish hatcheries, and privately held lakes and ponds, something not requested by the Court or environmental Plaintiffs.

Craig the guy that runs SARL who I got my tube from already said he will simply shut down all 3 lakes if it passes because it's going to cost around $100k to implement the study and LNL lake will also shut down since they really don't make that much money anyway.

Not sure how the above links are going to help, but the only people I'm support is CARF simply because they are the only ones going after the DFG in court and that's the only way to get it stopped.

TheAsianGuy wrote:DFG got sued for letting the ponds' owners doing what they like for so long. The environmental groups indicated the ponds with stocked fishes were and are still impacting the water ways due to excessive water nutrients intro, with the detrimental effects of introduction of non-native fish species into the CA waters

From what I read the issue with the DFG was a result of PUBLIC water and public water rights. Nothing to do with private hatcheries or lake owners. Because the waters the DFG was using for it's hatchery are not owned by the DFG and are owned by the public (we the people) they where forced to do the study that was said to be impacting public wild life.

Public water rights, being inclusive for landowners that have the so called lakes/ponds under their ownerships, an example are the Corona/SARLs, pulling water from the private wells, water ways such as creeks and streams, and eventually reintroduce the contaminated water back into the water ways that lead into the U.S. or state waters which are being used for drinkable water supplies. The drinkable water supplies can be underground, or above ground, such as lakes that connects to upper and lower streams like Big Bear, or isolated lakes like DVL or Perris. In Corona and SARLs case, they are connected to various water tributaries that impacted everything from the lakes' location to the ocean.

DFG chases after these types of lake owners that over used the resources, and tainted the resources and habitats. But, every other well practiced-maintenance owners get hammered in between. Then that took off to the fisheries as well. Some fisheries are isolated, while others connected to a water way (streams, rivers, etc.) to draw the water in, then discharge the water from the ponds when the ponds are full, or better yet, during water replacement processes. The water can get pretty nasty from an over populated pond. Seen the results from a few fisheries in the past.

The action class lawsuit that I've seen was for private pond owners to sample fish tissues. I didn't see the section on the minimum pond size requirement and/or fish stocking activities that trigger the sampling regiment. That's what I really want to know whether we are all misinformed by CARF or overly enforced by the DFG regulation due to the lawsuit.

We have enough BS enforcement to protect the environmental health as it is already. We just need to tackle what's truly needed, and not micro-managing every little thing. This is coming from a guy that do environmental study and perform enforcement. We just have to pick our battles that best to protect everyone, and not every thing micro issue that comes along. Fish tissue sampling at every pond? Come on now. That's overkill. Water quality sampling will yield similar results. Maybe a random fish tissue sample every 4 years, and not every freaking year.

ok i fish the ocean

ed5000x wrote:ok i fish the ocean

What do you think they are going after, after they get what they want in fresh water?... "the ocean buddy"

pretty soon we will not be able to fish here california period !! Jan 1st, alot of the ocean is going to be shut down to fishing due to MLPH (Forgot what its called). There has been on going problems with freash water..lawsuites etc.

Its getting to the point that I think I'll pack up and move my family down to Mexico. They have awsome fishing down there, its cheep to live and oh did i forget to say, they have awsome fishing. very large and healthy bass fishier too.

Vagabond wrote:

ed5000x wrote:ok i fish the ocean

What do you think they are going after, after they get what they want in fresh water?... "the ocean buddy"

Well night mission

Vagabond wrote:
What do you think they are going after, after they get what they want in fresh water?... "the ocean buddy"

DFG already place a regulation on the ocean, all over the coast lines, from the east, to the west, from the north, down to the south. Any oceanic fisheries will under do the same crap as the fresh water in that regulatory requirement. It's an umbrella regulation. On top of that, bacterial and pathogenic monitoring.

Miller, if you referring to DFG regulation and environmental group acronyms, it's Marine Life Protection Act (MLPA). Refers to the statement just above that ocean fishing will be subjected under.

Hey Guys,
Ok here is the bottom line...
Fishing in the state of California is under attack by an environmentally extreme point of view and the DFG is being compromised, and is now operating under an environmental mandate and not an outdoorsman or sportsman's mandate. The specifics, and science of the lawsuits are of secondary importance to the political impetuous of this action. Not because they are not important but because they are not the issue at hand. The simple fact of the matter is there is no plausible defense against what the DFG is proposing. The idea of introducing a farm raised species of fish into any water in California without an EIR is politically, legally, and environmentally abhorrent. This is a retroactive action being taken against the private fish stocking industry in an effort to level the playing field and maintain legal and environmental consistency. What is good for the gander (the DFG) is good for the goose! (the private hatcheries and lake concessions). I quite frankly do not see a defense against this. The private hatcheries and lake concessions have for years operated outside the law due to DFG and Federal complacency and oversight. The only regulations enforced were those of FDA health and quality but environmental impact was always ignored. Well, the opponents of sportfishing have very carefully scrutinized the situation and are now taking full advantage of the loopholes we have enjoyed.The EIRs that should have been done years ago must be done now!! Unfortunately the real political will behind this effort is using this action to apply as much pressure on the private fisheries and hatcheries as is possible to force catastrophic failure and subsequently attain their real goal. NO MORE SPORTFISHING IN CALIFORNIA!!!
My friends we have lost many major battles the last few years and it appalls me how uninformed and complacent the fisherman of this state are. I placed myself among them but I have recently been trying to change that. There are some frightening actions and proposals that are being put into place regarding the SURVIVAL of our sport. They are insidiously subtle and obscure. Take for instance the DFG Striper Irradication Program that is about to be implemented. Although most fisherman perceive this as another environmentalist attack in reality it is being spearheaded by Stewart Resnick of Paramount Farms, (the largest private citrus, almond ,and pistachio farm organization in the country ) and it is about water exports to LA. The more we water our lawns, eat pistachios, and demand water in our SoCal reservoirs, the more money he makes and the more pressure he puts on politicians like Diane Feinstien to go to bat for his interest and continue to export record amounts of water from the Delta!! The guy could give a rat's ass about the environment or fishing!

OK, I'm sure you are getting my point. Recently WAXON67 has been posting some very interesting and pertinent links and I applaud him for it. But I have noticed that aside from the usual " good post " and "thnx for the info" reactions there is little else said.

GENTLEMEN, WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME! IT IS TIME TO GET INVOLVED AND START GETTING INFORMED!!

Just for emphasis, did you all know that your beloved bays and harbours are on the environmentalists hit list for total closure to fishing? Starting with Newport Harbour? Food for thought!! The threat is real.

Sadly, bodfish

Smack on there bodfish. Been involved. But never completely get the full info from all the sources. This lawsuit was back in 2006. New regs just been release in the recent years with so many updates from all sides. Hard to tell which draft is the final draft.

But in all seriousness, this is just a starter. Once it fully hits Cali, it will then trickle to every other state that has an established population which demand fisheries for both food and sport sources. We all need to inform everyone to understand the magnitude of the issue, properly, armed with proper knowledge, rather than rumors and hearsay.

Bodfish, you seem to understand the problem, but are lost on the solution and are too involved with the politics and rhetoric behind the problem. What fisherman don't seem to realize is "getting envolved" is pointless because the bottom line is the only way the DFG will be forced to act or not act will be because of a Judge's mandate given by a court order.

It was the lawsuit filed by Pacific Rivers Council and the Center for Biological Diversity against DFG in 2006 that forced the DFG to do anything. In July, 2007, DFG was ordered by the Sacramento Superior Court to comply with CEQA regarding its fish stocking operations.

That is the bottom line. The Superior Court's request didn't include nor mention ANYTHING about private lakes and or private hatcheries to also partake in the EIR.

As a fisherman the ONLY thing I'm concerned with is loosing my right to fish and as a result I support CARF who has done the only thing that will stop the DFG and that is filing a lawsuit.

While I do agree that all non-native species such as snake heads, asian carp ect needs to be regulated. But that is not what this about it is about raising capital to a MISS-MANAGED DFG what's next I do purchase a license every but if I choose to go to pay private lake so be it, and if some AMERICAN CITIZEN chooses to open a private lake should it not be his right, what's next toilet paper regulations so please oppose this
GOD BLESS AMERICA.

harptube wrote:But that is not what this about it is about raising capital to a MISS-MANAGED DFG

Exactly, they are taking something that is mandated for public waters and imposing it on PRIVATE hatchary owners and Private lake owners.

Fishing aside this will also mean a huge loss of California's fresh fish farms since most private hatcheries will simply shut down shot and stop raising fish in the state of California. That will mean higher prices for fresh water fish at the market and a huge revenue loss for the state AGAIN.

Exactly what I'm saying we have heard of the decimation that the snakehead,big head and asian carp have caused on the waterways in America but I have never heard of the voracious rainbow trout or voracious catfish that decimate lakes & streams or rivers. So go on the site and e-mail your oppositon of this bill.

harptube wrote:So go on the site and e-mail your oppositon of this bill.

I did that back in February when the proposal was first announced and CARF filed the lawsuit against the DFG.

"As a fisherman the ONLY thing I'm concerned with is loosing my right to
fish and as a result I support CARF who has done the only thing that
will stop the DFG and that is filing a lawsuit. "

I don't see anyone loosing their "right" to fish. I see it as loosing the "opportunity" to fish. Opportunity and Liberty...hand in hand. THIS IS THE BOTTOM LINE. Liberty is what is at stake here. A fisherman with no where to fish has all the right to fish. This is the MO of the establishment. This is what we need to understand.

Involvement occurs on many levels. It behooves us all. Never discourage it. Never discourage awareness. Always encourage discussion.

Great discussion here. I'm glad I posted up. Sorry if the links are dis functional

Thanks to all for your contributions. I have learned much. Keep it going..

Cool brother

Hey guys,
WAXON67 you are so astute!
LGHT you are correct about your right to fish. (Article 1, Section 25, California State Constitution..by the way I think everyone should read this.) But much like the Second Amendment it simply speaks to your right to fish, not to where, when and how. Realizing this the enemies of sportfishing have over the last 50-60 years sought to legislate against the sport by limiting or eliminating our access, opportunity and method.

1) limiting or eliminating our ACCESS
The MLPAs are a perfect example of this. Although I personally believe the MLPAs are a good idea gone bad, ( this is a whole other discussion) they represent how a politically driven agenda can effectively curtail, if not eliminate a righteous activity of the citizens. By the way I have mentioned this before but I hope you all realize that the MLPA closures, by the narrowest of margins did not include the estuarial harbors on this coast. But it is not a dead issue. The opponents of sportfishing in estuarial harbors are continuing to seek closure of especially the NEWPORT HARBOR.

2) limiting or eliminating our OPPORTUNITY
Seasonal closures, like the Rockfish Seasonal Closure, (Which again I consider a good idea gone bad)
is a good example of curtailing our opportunity to sensibly harvest rockfish year round.

3) limiting or eliminating our METHOD
I have never had much difficulty with method or mechanical bans but I see a very worrisome trend forming. Lead sinker ban, not a bad thing,( but because the Canadians think ducks and geese ingest them and die? ) Uh,.. yeah. Limiting the multiple hook rigs ? OK,.. Artificials only?, Love it!,...Barbless hooks only,...Hmmm, like it but, it's not for everyone,..FLY FISHING WITH BARBLESS HOOKS ONLY?... Now wait a G-d damn minnit!!!
This is one of my pet peeves! Our dear friends the fly fishers, (and don't get me wrong, I ONLY fly fish) have an attitudinal problem. They really believe they are better than other fisherman, and truly believe that their method is the only way fish should be taken. Consequently they have over the years spent millions of dollars and unending effort to limit the average fisherman's, ACCESS, OPORTUNITY, and especially, METHOD!!
Again this is a whole other discussion.

Finally, LGHT,..
I must vehemently disagree with your assertion that getting involved is pointless. This is exactly the reason we are presently fighting for our angling lives!! We are not involved enough!!

We as fisherman should be the loudest and largest voice heard regarding ANYTHING about water, riparian quality and use, conservation, preservation. ( this is not a bad word, if paired with balanced use, and conservation policy )

We as fisherman should be the first to regulate and even legislate to conserve and protect our resource.

We as fisherman should be at the forefront, of any and all scientific research to further the knowledge pool about our sport

We as fisherman should be the best first person example of ecological awareness and conservation behavior.


OK, I think you all get where I am coming from. Listen guys, I am a lifelong fisherman. I was fortunate enough to fish this grand state through it's heyday. I have fished and caught fish that most of you can only dream of. That is not brag, just fact, and I know that most of that is gone forever. I WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM. I thought that it could never end, that Mother Nature was greater than any amount of pressure me and my friends could put on her. That politics and policy was for someone else not me. That the DFG was the enemy and the Eco freaks weren't worth paying attention to. Well I was wrong. Mother Nature isn't tough , she is fragile, The DFG is THE only agency who can protect us, Politics and policy is the only thing! and the f-ckin Eco freaks are in charge now!!!

Please guys, get involved, get informed, be pro active,

or kiss it all goodbye

bodfish

bodfish wrote:

Finally, LGHT,..
I must vehemently disagree with your assertion that getting involved is pointless. This is exactly the reason we are presently fighting for our angling lives!! We are not involved enough!!

Not sure how long you've been involved with fighting things like MLPA's or closures, but I started out fishing the ocean some time ago. I've always been involved with fighting this MLPA or that closure only to see every one of them fail miserably. The main reason is because as fisherman I've come to the realization that WE are not the majority plan and simple.

A lot of the current south orange county closure happened in the last 30 years. As fisherman I fought and fought this closer and that closure. The best all the fighting we could muster would allow us to get a vote and when we had that vote only 5% of all the people who responded wanted to allow fishing. So if 95% of all the respondents want the closure and don't care about fishing. The area will be closed. Simple 2nd grade math. Even if all the fisherman got involved, voted against closure, went and protested against the DFG we would still only be a small 5-10% of the people and will loose each and every time as we always had.

Since I've worked the the legal industry for over 20 years I know for a fact that the bottom line will always come down to the Law. It was the law that forced the DFG to create the EIS to begin with and it will be the Law that will stop them if anything at all. That's why I could care less about this useless petition or that meaningless meeting. You may feel empowered and noble, but we simply don't have the numbers and all the screaming and yelling won't matter in the end.

File your lawsuit state the facts and let the courts decide the outcome.

It's the American way.

its all about money