Carp update

Hey everybody!
hope everyone had a great Christmas!

A few months ago I mentioned that I was going to investigate the Carp Fishing phenomena that is sweeping the country.
Here's a few things I have found out,...

I think the popularity of carp fishing in the US is being driven by a few things,.. First the good things that I see about carp fishing,...
1) they seem to be every where, virtually in every body of water, no matter how big or small, and regardless of the quality of the water. (There is actually a very avid group of carp fisherman who target the LA River!!)
2) they grow fast, spawn plenty, and get ridiculesly big! ( how does 70lbs grab you?)
3) they are a real challenge to catch, (spooky!) and fight really, really hard!
4) although you can get absurdly complicated and spend a minor fortune doing it, (as with all things),
in general carp fishing is best done soaking bait from shore, making it the perfect poorman's fishing. Also a great way to start to learn about fishing in general. (kids?)
5) table-fare? well I am still investigating this point, but keep in mind that the reason they were brought here from eastern Europe over a hundred years ago was as a food source.

OK, now for the not so good reasons,....
1) they seem to be every where, virtually in every body of water, no matter how big or small, and regardless of the quality of the water. Their tolerance to low oxygen, warm water, salt, and turbidity, allow them to occupy and better compete in a wider variety of environments than other common species.
2) they grow fast, spawn plenty, and get ridiculesly big! ( how does 70lbs grab you?) Hence they are quickly becoming the predominant species in many waters throughout the US because of their fecundity and sheer numbers. they tend to do better in water and conditions that other species have difficulty with. Perhaps they are growing in popularity because they now outnumber the other indigenous game species? hmmm,..
3) they are a real challenge to catch, (spooky!) and fight really, really hard! These things are super spooky and are real tackle busters and the fact that most carp fisherman are zealous catch and release guys there is virtually no harvesting being done. (Not like it would have any real affect on there exploding numbers)
4) these things are eating machines, consuming a wide variety of items, and according to some studies, virtually insatiable. They will eat until it is all gone and then move on to someplace or something else. ( this disturbs me the most, that a fish can consume not just a lot, but a lot of DIFFERENT foods.) Their feeding habit, even the way their mouths are designed, make them the vacuum cleaners of their environment.
5) there is wide contempt for the carp based on the aforementioned points and I think it is based on the perception throughout the country that the carp is an invading species that does harm to other species by over competing for space and food. There seems to be quite a bit of scientific data to support these ideas as well as lots of practical evidence. IE; the Asian, or Bullhead carp.

One of the things I have a real problem with is that the most common way that carp fisherman pursue carp is by chumming massive amounts of bait and then casting their hooked bait into the chummed area and wait for a bite. The mount of bait they use is astonishing! Pounds and pounds of the stuff! Also, it is WHAT, they are chumming, and using for hook bait. One of the most effective baits used by carp fisherman is corn. As well the hook rigs they use are by law technically a snag rig, as the hook (sometimes multiples) is free and not imbedded in the bait. I am not sure if this is an issue or not but the DFG certainly thinks so.
I am not completely familiar with the DFG regs regarding this but, I am pretty sure that some of the techniques used by some carp fisherman may not be at present above board. I think there needs to be some investigating and perhaps rules modification done here.

Finally, the carp fisherman I have come in contact with are avid and serious, as any fisherman I have met. They defend the carp zealously and their right to pursue the carp as any other species. I applaud their zeal. Carp fishing is growing in popularity and clubs and money competitions are quickly pushing this popularity. This can only be good for our sport in general. BUT,! I am just worried that the carp will soon be all we have to pursue. Hmmmm,...

bodfish

Thats some awesome info, thanks. Ive always wanted to knock carp off of my species list...Im gonna do it this new year for sure....

Yea, I gotta do some carp fishing. A 70# on a tube would be sick!

catch and kill carp or catch and realease? is my question i dont like the infestation of carp i read a artical last year how the great lake were in danger and it was do to carp so i ask the above question

I'm not sure, but a LONG time ago 30 years I would trout fish at legg lake and was told that it was illegal to use corn because trout can't digest it. Anyone know if that is true?

Corn is not illegal. Chumming fresh water is .Asian carp are the bigger of the carp threat as they are filter feeders and can not be caught conventionally. The Euro style of bait and hook is a boilies and hair rigs. The biggest argument against carp is the damage they do to the lake bottoms and spawning areas. As they feed primarily on the bottom and "root" the bottom for food stuffs e.g. mollusks, fresh water clams etc. However, they have been around in U.S. lakes for a very long time and are not indigenous. What the actual damage they do is I suppose is arguable. They are on the top 100 most invasive species. I'm sure there are statistics to support any argument. However, I don't see a need for one.

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Personally I don't see the detrimental effects as they are noted statistically in the areas I fish and I stress the "the areas I fish" so please take that for what its worth.

Catching them is a total blast and I am all for a tortilla on a hook. Boillies and hair rigs on the other hand provide a different approach. Its like cat fishing. A great set up to have in the water while you are actively fishing for bass or other species.

I see the boilly and hair rig as more of a lure than a snag method. If you understand the operation of the system you will see there is no "snag" involved. But that is just my opinion.

Funny I have witnessed DFG request a carp be released back to the water whence it came. Interesting.

Hey WAXON
once again, good response. I suppose the the concern I have with the corn is that is it is a digestive, problem for a number of species, and as far as the hair rig, and the other rigs I have observed, they are "technically" considered snag rigs. I think there just needs to be clarification and perhaps specific regs regarding their use. I understand the concepts and suggest they be specified for carp fishing use only, and rig design clarified.
As far as the chumming is concerned, I am not sure how to mitigate this. It is key to their success as carp fisherman but by the same token it is a bit alarming how much and how often it seems to be done. They throw out pounds, and pounds, of the stuff. It strikes me that they are simply creating feeding stations, and fattening their stock at the same time. It was suggested the me that an inexpensive and effective source of chum was commercial chicken feed, because you could buy it in 50lb bags.

I suppose the jury is still out regarding the affects the Eurasian carps have on other species here in Southern California but judging from studies done in other states and the few done here, the future does not bode well. If you simply consider the sheer numbers of them and how they have increased over the years here, coupled with their feeding habits you have a very obnoxious and destructive creature. I suppose you simply have to accept that the buggers are here to stay and make the best of it.

For me personally, I just don't have the patience. Once you get past the rigging and tackle, which by the way can be absurdly complicated, it seems like you do a lot of sitting and waiting. no thnx

n2deep, Sorry, I may have mislead, 70lbers exist in the UK and parts of Europe. Here? the trophy commons run more in the 30-40s. Still piggy fish.

I guess the only thing left is to see if the thing will barbecue up,


hmmmm,.... bodfish

PS.
on a personal note, I have caught them, and they do fight well for their size, but,... The carp guys, say it is a really smart fish, I think it is quite the opposite. Just like why the Great White Shark is so dangerous, I think the Common Carp is so hard to catch. they is both dumb as rocks...
the carp wanders around head down sucking up the bottom or strolls about aimlessly,
they smell
they are ugly
there body is soft and spongy

fishing for them is like fishing for really nervous cows

they are the antithesis of a game fish
I don't like em.

I am still going to try and investigate further and hope to fish with some real "Euro" style guys soon. will keep you informed.

I would imagine that with the increased interest in carp fishing nation wide that over time if everyone pays attention, we can "thin the heard on them nervous cows" (I love that reference!) through the various tournaments , competitions and general interest surfacing in the fishing world. Catch and kill. CK instead of CR. Of course you would have to convince the sporting carp man to kill his prize 30# 'er...might be difficult. I suppose the real question is can we keep up with their reproduction? I say yes. But it won't happen over night.

Again with chumming there is the sporting method and the killjoy. Much like a cat fisherman will poke holes in a cat food can and toss into a spot to fish much later the carp guys DO create large buffets for their quarry. But it doesn't have to be done like that. Now...does this offset the impact of the carp on more natural feeding? And yes there is the impact on other species. Remains to be seen. I am inclined to think not as stated before they continue to eat round the clock.

With all that carp fry in our waters one is compelled to wonder...is there a "carp" imitating lure on the market? I would guess the bass enjoy their share of the little buggers while they are small...and numerous through out the year.

Again...interesting.

Hmmm,... I remember a large swim bait that was developed some years ago, that was supposed to resemble a carp. Don't know if it ever caught on. Seems logical, perhaps it needs to be revisited. Perhaps carp taste as bad as they look. Hee Hee,...

bodfish

Lets go Bow fishing to the big bear carp round up !!!!!!!! They have removed over 5,000. pounds last year and the year before it was 8,000. They say if the population is not keep in check they will loose the lake and only cat's and carp will be the only fish in the lakes???? Carps are fun and I LOVE the hole out thinking them part but they are a little on the dumb side.

Mendozauly wrote: Lets go Bow fishing to the big bear carp round up !!!!!!!! They have removed over 5,000. pounds last year and the year before it was 8,000. They say if the population is not keep in check they will loose the lake and only cat's and carp will be the only fish in the lakes???? Carps are fun and I LOVE the hole out thinking them part but they are a little on the dumb side.

Do you know if they allow spearfishing in that lake? Man I loved spearing carp in NV. I could shoot 20 a day in the shallows and still see a school of hundreds of them just begging for food.

I got a fishing bow can you use it a public lakes

LGHT wrote:

Mendozauly wrote: Lets go Bow fishing to the big bear carp round up !!!!!!!! They have removed over 5,000. pounds last year and the year before it was 8,000. They say if the population is not keep in check they will loose the lake and only cat's and carp will be the only fish in the lakes???? Carps are fun and I LOVE the hole out thinking them part but they are a little on the dumb side.

Do you know if they allow spearfishing in that lake? Man I loved spearing carp in NV. I could shoot 20 a day in the shallows and still see a school of hundreds of them just begging for food.

So many carp in the shallows of Lake Mead you can toss out popcorn and walk on them like a carp - et.

[quote="waxon67"]

LGHT wrote:

Mendozauly wrote: Lets go Bow fishing to the big bear carp round up !!!!!!!! They have removed over 5,000. pounds last year and the year before it was 8,000. They say if the population is not keep in check they will loose the lake and only cat's and carp will be the only fish in the lakes???? Carps are fun and I LOVE the hole out thinking them part but they are a little on the dumb side.

Do you know if they allow spearfishing in that lake? Man I loved spearing carp in NV. I could shoot 20 a day in the shallows and still see a school of hundreds of them just begging for food.

So many carp in the shallows of Lake Mead you can toss out popcorn and walk on them like a carp - et.[/quote

You're not kiddin about Lake Mead. I haven't been there in a few years but that's one of the memories of that place.. The boat docks were swamped with em. Talk about an ugly a$$ fish...I'm all for killin em..I mean c'mon.. A fish that eats corn??

oh man i am a terrible shoot i am going to have to practise lol please keep me informed on the big round up i think i also ask? do you need t specail licenes for bow fishing or a class you got to take i had this think for about 3 years and never used it but it dose look like fun specailly now on carp (i dont like carp)

you can bow fish big bear and lake hemet that i know of.......... fyi though becareful how you word your self to a game warden if you have a dead carp on shore from bow hunting tell him its for food or something i know of a guy that had one and went to throw it away and got sited for wasting the animal. just a little info. kill the bastards in my opinion